Your Net Worth, Your Gross Salary, and What They Mean

“The interesting thing about one’s net worth is that it can’t be negotiated with one’s employer.”

Note.  The subject matter of this blog post is not new.  It has been known for years by those who learned about it in their families, or who have discovered it on their own.  It’s simply a discussion from my personal perspective which I think is worth visiting.  The pictures displayed throughout this post are from the eastside of my hometown of Buffalo, NY.  My first money lessons started there – a lot of what not to do, and they capture the essence of some of the money challenges facing my brothers and sisters in my hometown and across the country.

Money Lessons From Your Family

Life is literally a lottery and regardless of your color or nationality, one of its immutable truths is that you can’t control the family you were born into.  You can’t control the parents you are born to, which likewise dictate the privileges and advantages you have access to.  We often think of privilege in terms of black and white (White Privilege), but there are also black families that have privileges over other black families.  The family you are born into in large part guides your start in life, the information, and the values that will dictate your early life choices – good or bad, though they don’t necessarily shape all that comes afterwards – a good thing for some.

Neither of my parents talked about what a Net Worth was when I was growing up.  As described in the Big Words Blog Site Story, my mother and her siblings were first generation college students – descendants of parents who were a part of the Great Migration.  My father’s situation was similar.  They were children of the Civil Rights Era, and thus the big goal for them was earning college degrees and then securing stable jobs on equal footing with their white peers.  That for them was winning and it was also a surpassing of their elders.  For those of us born from their generation (Generation X), going to college was also expected, but what would be the next level for us?  What was winning for our generation?

One’s Gross Income Vs. Their Net Worth

These days I have a lot of discussions with via text messaging with my brother Amahl, and three close friends from Hutch-Tech High School in Buffalo, NY: the twins Alim and Raheem Gaines and our other buddy, Hestin Brown.  All week long we discuss topics including sports, politics, and some of the silly stuff we see in the media, on Black Twitter and on Facebook.  We discuss social issues as well, particularly as they relate to the black community.  We’re a “Black Male’s Support Group”, or even our own little “Think Tank”.  Recently in a group dialogue that started out with a controversy regarding Tyrese Gibson’s spouse and whether she was actually black, something else much more important came up, the concept of one’s net worth.

Alim cited something he heard about listing what black men in the United States earn in terms of average gross income.  I responded wondering what the breakdown was for black women and Alim on cue cited the 2010 study by Mariko Chang describing Black and Hispanic women having average net worths of only $100 and $120.  I quickly pointed out that there was a difference between one’s gross income and their net worth.  My brother, the eldest in our group, asked what a net worth was.  For perspective, we’re all just above the age of 40.  Alim and I both knew the answer and gave it.  I shared that I was first introduced to the term in my late 20s, but didn’t completely grasp it until my mid-30s – very, very late in the game.  I pondered the fact that my brother still hadn’t grasped it yet – not a knock on him by any means, just our life’s circumstance.  I then wondered how our own life decisions would have been different had we known this important concept in our teens.

What Is Your Net Worth?

Just briefly, your net worth is the numerical difference between what you own and what you owe – your savings and your assets minus your debts and obligations (liabilities).  Your savings are self-explanatory – the amount of liquid cash you have available and can access quickly.  Assets can be anything from securities such as stocks, gold or silver, real estate investments, equity in your home, or profitable businesses.  If you’re an employee, a major contributor to your net worth is your retirement savings – that’s if you’ve been disciplined enough (and able) to steadily set money aside, which is something that the experts at Horan Wealth Estate Planning can help you with.  Debts/liabilities are self-explanatory as well.  Common forms of debt are: credit cards, car notes, mortgages, home equity lines of credit, loans against your retirement savings, etc.

I only started learning about what a net worth was in my late 20s, out of curiosity and chance.  Books like the Rich Dad Poor Dad talked about it, in addition to the Millionaire Next Door.  In Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University (FPU), the term is not explicitly addressed, but FPU’s ‘Baby Steps’ ultimately lead to a steadily increasing net worth.

A Metric Of Your Wealth

Okay, so what’s the big deal about this somewhat abstract and nebulous term that only few understand?  The answer is that your net worth is a metric of your wealth which is very, very different than your gross salary.  This is a critical distinction because a high gross salary doesn’t necessarily translate into a high net worth.  A person or a couple can have high gross salaries and still have a negative net worth(s).

In Black America we’re often enamored and impressed with individuals who make six figures.  Similar to one’s occupation, making six figures by itself can be deceptive.  You would assume that a medical doctor, a lawyer, or a news anchor would be very comfortable, but not necessarily – the same is true for someone who makes six figures.  Imagine if a person has a gross salary of $100,000 and their expenses are $95,000.  They’re still essentially broke right?  Beyond a certain point, your gross income is what Malcolm Gladwell in his book, Outliers, calls an ‘Entrance Criteria’ – an attribute that allows you entry into a club, though it isn’t a predictor of greatness.  ‘Excellence Criteria’ is what separates the great from the average and the underachievers.  These are the things that allow one to become wealthy in this case.

Contrary to the images we’re bombarded with in the media, the excellence criteria for building your net worth don’t necessarily involve a lavish and high consumption lifestyle, but instead being frugal and careful with one’s money.  Dr. Thomas Stanley wrote extensively about this in his Millionaire Next Door series.  This means that many people are chasing after the wrong things in life and not knowing it until it’s too late.

Increasing Or Decreasing Your Net Worth

What are some keys to growing your Net Worth?  Some of them include:

  • Budgeting one’s money and controlling costs – learning to run a surplus vs. a deficit;
  • Saving money gradually in an emergency fund, retirement and then potentially for investments and;
  • Carrying the least amount of debt possible.

What are some keys to keeping and maintaining a low/negative net worth?  Some of them include:

  • Spending more than you earn – spending everything you earn;
  • Not saving anything and;
  • Carrying large amounts of debt – particularly on the things that lose value or don’t justify borrowing the money – cars, sneakers, and degrees which don’t lead to well-paying jobs.

In his Rich Dad Poor Dad series, Robert Kiyosaki actually defines wealth as the amount of time one can go without working while still being able to cover expenses.

But what are the greater implications of growing your net worth and wealth?  They can position you to do things like build businesses.  They can be used to donate to charities, and to give other students, for example, the chance to go to school to better themselves – something sorely needed in Black America.  This is the importance of organizations like the United Negro College Fund for example.  They can be used to fund political candidates and campaigns, and have a true seat at the table when national and local policy decisions are made.  At the end of the day, politics is all about money right?

In Black America right now discussions, like the ones my buddies and I have, are actually taking place about the differences between having a high net worth and having a high salary – again two things which don’t necessarily correlate.  One gentleman on Twitter, a Nigerian I think, who regularly beats the net worth drum often rebutting people who think they’ve made it because they’ve attained a high gross salary and have luxury items like Mercedes Benzes and BMWs.  While these are prestigious toys, they gradually lose value and deceptively don’t translate into wealth.

Can You Negotiate Your Net Worth With Your Employer?

The interesting thing about one’s net worth is that it can’t be negotiated with one’s employer – it’s something that must be decided and acted upon by the individual once they understand it – like choosing to eat healthy or choosing to continue to eat an unhealthy diet.  It can’t be legislated or forced upon groups of people, nor should it be.  It’s a personal choice just like practicing a religion or choosing a spouse.  Speaking of which, I’ve read that judges actually consider a couple’s net worth during divorces and usually just split everything down the middle – a source of tension particularly when one of the spouses hasn’t earned the assets being split.

“Tasha and Ron are living large.  She’s a School Administrator and he’s a Fireman,” my mother said about couple in their 40s who are friends of the family.  She was looking at their professions and what she thought their salaries were and concluded that they were winning financially.

“Actually you don’t know that, Mom,” I said in reply.  “People can look like they’re making it on the outside, but without knowing their savings, their bills and their debts are, you don’t really know how they’re doing.”  My response echoed Robert Kiyosaki’s books where he stated that an individual’s financial success is actually dictated by their income statement and balance sheet – two things you can’t see by looking at someone – but things banks weight highly when qualifying individuals for mortgages or business loans.

What prevents individuals from growing their net worths?  Several things actually.  One is ignorance.  If no one ever tells you about it and you don’t stumble upon the information, you’ll never know.  Secondly, personal choices prevent one from doing it.  It takes discipline and drive, and many individuals lack those.  As a man, if you’ve recklessly had a bunch of kids and are bogged down with child support payments, you’ll probably never get there.

If you’re a single mother also with many kids, you’ll also have a hard time getting there as well.  It’s not impossible, just exponentially more difficult.  In one of his videos, Dr. Boyce Watkins stated that the average cost of a child is $250,000 up until it turns 18 years of age.  The other piece is that in some instances, particularly in Black America, only a handful of people in a given family get educated and earn a decent salary.  Those individuals are often looked upon to take care of everyone else – a potential, “Siphoning off of the wealth,” as Dr. Michael Eric Dyson said, partially joking, at the 2015 Congressional Black Caucus Annual Legislative Conference.  That day he was leading a Wealth-Building panel.

Who Can Become A High Net Worth Individual?

Growing a high net worth doesn’t necessarily involve going to get a Ph.D., an M.D., a Pharm D., or a J.D.  You actually don’t necessarily need a college degree to do it.  It simply requires a steady stream of income, understanding debt, and priorities.  This is what Dave Ramsey meant when he said, “Money is 20% knowledge and 80% behavior.” 

This is also one of the key principles in Robert Kiyosaki’s Cashflow game where players must choose their profession before playing.  One would think in the game that it would be easier to get out of the “Rat Race” by being one of the higher income professionals like the doctor, lawyer, or the airline pilot, but it’s actually easier as the web designer or the janitor.  While they generate less gross income, they also carry less debt and have fewer bills.  Their cost per child is also less than the higher income professionals.

Understanding what a net worth is and then making the decisions to grow it is a paradigm shift and a powerful one.  As with most things, we all have lives and everyone’s situations are unique.  We all have relatives and friends who may not necessarily understand the decisions and temporary sacrifices being made, and thus it’s important to know your own motivations – you have to know your ‘why’.

Concluding Thoughts

Again, a net worth is not a salary that you make every year.  It’s a result of spending habits and specific money choices.  How often should it be calculated?  One of my mentors told me that it should be calculated quarterly.  If you haven’t been paying attention to it, your initial assessment may not look pretty, but it gives you a place to start from – kind of like a doctor’s checkup.

So what’s your net worth?  Don’t answer that.  From experience, just like your gross income, it’s best if you keep it to yourself and only share it with a trusted few if anyone at all.  Money does different things to different people, and when people think you have it, it can do strange things to your relationships – your relatives and friends.

Thank you for taking the time to read this post. If you enjoyed this post, you might also enjoy:

The difference between being cheap and frugal
We should’ve bought Facebook and Bitcoin stock: An investing story
Challenging misconceptions and stereotypes in class, household income, wealth and privilege
What are your plans for your tax cut? Thoughts on what can be done with heavier paychecks and paying less tax
Who will have the skills to benefit from Apple’s $350 billion investment?
Mother’s Day 2017: One of my mother’s greatest gifts, getting engaged, and avoiding my own personal fiscal cliff

If you’ve found value here and think it would benefit others, please share it and or leave comments.  To receive all of the most up to date content from the Big Words Blog Site, subscribe using the box in the right-hand column in this post and throughout the site, or add the link to my RSS feed to your feedreader.  Please visit my YouTube channel entitled, Big Discussions76. Lastly follow me on Twitter at @BWArePowerful, on the Big Words Blog Site Facebook page, and on Instagram at @anwaryusef76.  While my main areas of focus are Education, STEM, and Financial Literacy, there other blogs/sites I endorse which found on that particular page of my site.

Simone Griffin of HomeFree-USA discusses homeownership and the African American community part one

One of the goals of the Big Words Blog Site is to discuss Financial Literacy-related topics, particularly as they relate to the African American community.  A key aspect of wealth building is homeownership.  Coincidentally, for my very first interview for the site, I had the privilege of interviewing the very knowledgeable Simone Griffin of HomeFree-USA.  Simone and I met at the reception for the National Association of Real Estate Brokers (NAREB) at the 2016 Congressional Black Caucus Annual Legislative Conference.

During our interview, Simone discussed how HomeFree-USA was conceived and its mission, why homeownership is critical for African Americans, the effect of the 2008 housing market crash on African American homeownership and wealth, and the overall challenges the Black community faces in securing and maintaining homeownership.  Based on the wealth of information shared by Simone, our very candid and insightful interview will be posted in three parts.

Anwar Dunbar:  First of all, Simone, I want to thank you for your willingness to talk.  When I finished school, I realized that there were gaps in my financial knowledge.  Homeownership and real estate fall under that umbrella so I want to disseminate information that can help individuals, like myself, who want to have a firmer grasp on these concepts much earlier in life.

How did you get involved in real estate?

Simone Griffin: HomeFree-USA is a family business, which my parents started in 1995.  My father was in Mortgage Servicing for almost 20 years before that.  The servicing entity collects your mortgage payments and pays out the property taxes and homeowner’s insurance.  If you fall behind on your mortgage, they’re the ones you speak to.

My mother was in the retail business, and had a marketing background.  My parents noticed how many minorities in the DC area were locked out of homeownership, primarily because they didn’t know that they could afford it.  Many were government employees with very stable jobs, but no one in their family had ever owned a home.  My mother started HomeFree-USA, and my father later joined her, for those who had no one to guide them through all facets of becoming a successful, sustainable homeowner.

Realtors are often the default vehicle for helping people with their credit and debt issues, but that isn’t their job.  Their real job is to help you find a house.  It’s the job of the financial institution to make sure that you’re financially capable of repaying the loan, but as any homeowner knows, there’s far more that goes into owning a house than just the paying the mortgage.  And when you’ve been renting your whole life and don’t know any homeowners, it feels like a lofty feat.

HomeFree-USA walks with you so you know what you’re doing, are confident that you’re getting a good loan, and are buying well within your affordability range.

Ninety-six percent of the people who fell victim to the Housing Boom and subsequent Foreclosure Crisis didn’t see organizations like HomeFree-USA when they were buying their homes.  Had we seen them, there’s a high chance that they wouldn’t have been in those situations.  They worked with realtors and loan officers, but again it’s not their job to educate and prepare.  Their job is to help you get a loan and into a house.  Because there are shady businesses everywhere, you have to have enough knowledge to know when you’re being lead in the right direction and when someone is trying to take advantage.  That’s why HomeFree-USA is in existence.

AD:  Okay, so in summary, what is the mission of HomeFree USA?

SG:  The mission of HomeFree-USA is to:

  • Strengthen people through sustainable homeownership, financial education and coaching;
  • Enhance communities by creating affordable homeownership opportunities through the acquisition, rehabilitation and sale of Real Estate Owned (REO) properties; and
  • Elevate our partners with capacity building assistance and mutually beneficial programs and initiatives.

AD:  Before we move on you mentioned when the DC market was, ‘Affordable.’  For readers who don’t live in the DC area, what was affordable price-wise versus where we’re at right now?

SG:  Most of our homebuyers at that time were moderate income single mothers – making $35,000 to $55,000 a year.  You could buy a home in DC at that time making that kind of money.  Even if you adjust for inflation today, you cannot buy a house unless it’s an affordable set-aside (of which there are few) with that income.  I made $30,000 when I bought my house.  I could do that in the District then: now, no way.  The average income has also increased in DC, but not to the point where it makes homeownership affordable for all.

AD: They say that DC is no longer Chocolate City.

SG:  No, it’s definitely not Chocolate City anymore.

AD:  Why is homeownership so critical for the African American community in the United States?

SG:   First, one of the big misnomers is that homeownership should be used as an investment vehicle.  I don’t necessarily look at it as an investment vehicle, although homes typically appreciate in value over time.  Most importantly, homeownership stabilizes your expenses, which is invaluable when building wealth.  It also gives your family a foundation that they always know they can come home to.

On average, people of color are still paid less than non-Hispanic whites in this country.  I believe Black women are paid 60% less than their non-Hispanic white male counterparts, so we have to create ways to stabilize our income and expenses as much as possible, while continuing to work on income disparities.  Also, homeowners are typically more focused and invested in the state of their community.  If you have kids, the school system becomes really important.  Holding legislators accountable for actions which may affect your home value also becomes really important. There is a direct correlation between the health of a community and the number of homeowners.  You also get the advantage of having a tax write off.

I just don’t want people to look at homeownership purely as an investment.  Some people feel like it’s a given that their house should go up in value, and that’s not true. It’s an investment and investments are risky.  In the long run though, real estate tends to beat even the stock market in returns.

AD:  I was talking to a coworker recently and we were in fact discussing that when you rent, your rent tends to go up every year, and when you have a mortgage it tends to stay stable.

SG:  That’s true.  Your property taxes and homeowner insurance may increase, but if you have a consistent mortgage payment every month, you can stabilize your overall budget and begin to build true wealth.

This interview will continue in parts two and three of Simone Griffin of HomeFree-USA discusses Homeownership and the African American Community.  To read some more of Simone’s financial writings, visit her blog at www.moneymagnet.homefreeusa.org.  She can also be contacted directly at [email protected].  A special tank you is extended to Simone Griffin and HomeFree-USA for participating in this interview and also for providing the picture for this post.

Thank you for taking the time to read this interview. If you enjoyed it, you might also enjoy:

Simone Griffin of HomeFree-USA discusses homeownership and the African American community part two
Simone Griffin of HomeFree-USA discusses homeownership and the African American community part three
Your net worth, your gross salary and what they mean
The difference between being cheap and frugal
We should bought Facebook and Bitcoin stock: An investing story
Challenging misconceptions and stereotypes in class, household income, wealth and privilege

If you’ve found value here and think it would benefit others, please share it and or leave a comment. To receive all of the most up to date content from the Big Words Blog Site, subscribe using the subscription box in the right hand column in this post and throughout the site. Pease visit my YouTube channel entitled, Big Discussions76. Lastly follow me on Twitter at @BWArePowerful, on Instagram at @anwaryusef76, and at the Big Words Blog Site Facebook page. While my main areas of focus are Education, STEM and Financial Literacy, there are other blogs/sites I endorse which can be found on that particular page of my site.

Chris Brown discusses true stewardship and financial peace

sports-jacket-standing-hands-together-close-up2_backdropAround 2012, two friends introduced me to Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University – a faith based curriculum for managing one’s finances and achieving financial security and stability.  I had heard of Dave Ramsey before and knew that he had a radio show, and maybe had written some books.  I admittedly was suspicious that it was potentially another Multi-Level Network Marketing business proposal.

It turned out to be something very different, and four years later it has changed my own finances and life, and I also help out with the Financial Peace Ministry at the Alfred Street Baptist Church.  The following interview was published on the Examiner shortly after Dave Ramsey’s Washington, DC Smart Money Tour stop in the spring of 2016.  There I met Chris Brown who took the stage along with Dave that night, and was subsequently granted an interview.

* * *

On April 21, 2016, talk show host Dave Ramsey and his team visited Washington DC for one of his many Smart Money Tour stops.  That evening, Ramsey shared the stage with a member of his team, Chris Brown.  This Chris Brown, however, is not the controversial recording artist who shares the same name as they joked that night, but instead he is the host of the True Stewardship talk show.  Shortly after the tour stop Chris granted an interview to talk about his background, his True Stewardship talk show, and Financial Peace.

Anwar Dunbar:  Hello Chris.  We met briefly just after the Washington DC tour stop when you took the time out to talk to all of the current and prospective Financial Peace University (FPU) coordinators in the audience.  I really appreciate the opportunity to follow up with you and talk a little bit more.

Just a little bit about me for some context here. I’m a coordinator in the Financial Peace Ministry at the Alfred Street Baptist Church in Alexandria, VA.  When I start with a group these days, as part of my personal story, I tell them first and foremost that I have a Ph.D. in Pharmacology from the University of Michigan.  I share that at one point in my life I thought being a “Dr.” would be the key to having a good comfortable life.

In the sciences, a Ph.D. typically commands a significant income.  It wasn’t until after I completed my doctorate, got my first job and made some money mistakes that I realized the degree by itself, while definitely an accomplishment, didn’t put me where I wanted to be in life.   There were a lot of aspects to the financial world and money that I just didn’t understand, and several lessons that I hadn’t been taught.

At the end of the DC Tour Stop, you took some time to acknowledge the FPU coordinators in the audience.  Did you start off as a coordinator yourself?  How did you get to your current position where you’re working with Dave Ramsey and hosting your own talk show?

Chris Brown:  Yes, I remember meeting you.  Well, I think it was important that I had a background in Financial Peace University, and whether or not I was a coordinator or had been to a class, I think that it’s important that whenever you’re going to be representing a philosophy and a way of life – you’ve got to know that you’re behind it and living out what you say.  So I think that’s important.

Whether or not I was a coordinator, I don’t think that would’ve mattered. I’ve never personally coordinated a class.  I’ve been in several of them.  I’ve actually led at a church and my role was to make sure that we had several coordinators and that they felt equipped.  So for me, I went from attending a couple of Financial Peace classes to making sure that several of them happened at my church.  I kind of skipped over the coordinator piece.

AD:  So you must of have distinguished yourself in such a way that you got to meet and work with Dave Ramsey.  How did that all come about?

CB:  Yes.  I view my role at Dave Ramsey Solutions not as a platform thing.  It’s more of a calling.  We lead out, Dave and myself in particular, with our mistakes, not necessarily as experts.  It’s more of a vulnerability of saying we have been successful, but more than that what people are actually relating to is that we have failed, and that’s what people are resonating with the most.  We’ve applied biblical principles and they’ve worked, and we’ve applied non-biblical principles and they haven’t worked.  And so we’ve seen both worlds, so we lead out with our vulnerabilities and our huge mistakes.

AD:  How long have you been doing your True Stewardship talk show?  When did that start?

CB:  It’s been about a year.  Dave has always had a passion for stewardship which is managing God’s blessing, God’s way for God’s glory.  It’s deeper than just financial principals, the Xs and Os, and the mathematics.  It’s more of we’ve been entrusted with resources, our time and our talents.  And how do we manage those things for those who have lived by faith as believers?  And we wanted to make sure that we ministered to that particular demographic.

Dave is obviously serving everybody whether you’re a person of faith for not.  But he wanted to make sure that we had a branch of our organization that just ministered to those people of faith, and broke down what the Bible says about money.  There are 2,350 verses in the Bible all about how to handle wealth and possessions.  We want listeners to not only be educated, but empowered, and that they feel a little bit of encouragement and hope wherever they find themselves in their stewardship financial journey – when they apply themselves they can find themselves being successful on the other side.

It’s a twenty-five minute show, and just like Dave’s it’s a call-in show.  Dave Ramsey has a call-in show Monday thru Friday.  It’s a three-hour call in show in 550 plus markets around the country.  Mine is a twenty-five minute show.  It’s also call-in.  I occasionally have a guest, or I occasionally do a full teaching myself, but it’s on Monday thru Friday, as well in 20 different markets and both of us have podcasts that are associated with the show, and also we stream on our websites.

AD:  With so many financial gurus out there with their own systems for wealth building, do you find that some people perceive Financial Peace University to be a hustle or is it perceived the way you guys intend it to be?

CB:  I’ve never really thought about it that way because we’re really focused in on what we’re trying to do.  We like to say that we’re on a crusade.  We’re really trying to enhance a movement that’s already started so we’re more focused in on what we’re doing.  I don’t know about what all of the other gurus are doing.  I don’t know if there are any, if they’re twisted or if they’re shady.  I’m actually not familiar with any of that, but I do know that we have a very loyal tribe, and I also know that there are a lot of results, and people will follow where there are a lot of results.

Over the last twenty years there have been over four million people who have gone through this class and have experienced an average $8,000 swing in their finances in just the first 90 days. And so for around $100 for you to enroll in Financial Peace University and have a kit and some resources, and a book and all of that kind of stuff – after 90 days to have an $8,000 swing in your finances, for me the value of that is so big.  There’s never been a question about the value added to society.  So I really feel that way.  We give away a bunch of stuff for free on our websites and podcasts and radio shows.  It’s our way to serve the community.

dsc03840AD:  From your testimony at the tour stop, it sounds as you were pretty deep into the real estate investing world and experienced a lot of success, which is a lot of further than I ever got.  I did some learning, but never got any deals done.  Based upon your experience, once someone’s life becomes “Financially Peaceful”, would you recommend that arena for someone else?  Once you get out to Baby Steps Five and Six and you’ve got money in the bank and no debt; you’ve got your 15% retirement savings going, and you’re saving for your kid’s college funds, would you recommend someone going into the real estate investing arena to acquire properties, flipping homes, and similar things?

CB:  Let me just say that investing in real estate is great.  So there are a couple of factors.  First you have to make sure that you’re already diversified.  What we teach in Baby Step Four, which starts getting into investing, is to start with 15% of your household income going towards long-term investments – things with tax advantages.

You want to think long-term so you want to make sure you’re diversified: mutual funds, 401-Ks, Roth IRAs, 403-Bs, 457s, those kinds of things first.  Then you’re going to go to Baby Steps Five and Six; pay off your primary mortgage first – that primary has to be paid off first, and then you can get into rental homes, flipping homes, but only with cash so you’re not borrowing anything for that to happen.

So let’s say you go out and buy a $100,000 house with cash and two and a half years later you sell it for $175,000 – that’s really good.  You get cash, you use that $175,000 and then you go buy two properties for $70,000 each, and then clean them all up, and then two years later you sell them both for $200,000 each, or $150,000, whatever it is, but it’s always with cash.  You also want to buy investment properties where you have a local intelligence where you are, and where you can feel it.  You don’t ever want be a landlord if you’re living out of town.  You want to do it in your town.

AD:  As a literacy Examiner, from time to time I’ve written about money, not telling people what to do or trying to sound judgmental myself, because I’m not rich and have made my share of money mistakes.  However, I think the principles of Financial Peace University and money lessons in general are important to talk about.  With the exception of one or two pieces I’ve written, many of my financial articles have gotten little to moderate reaction.  Have you found money to be a sensitive topic in your experience, and if so, why do you think that is?

CB:  I’ve personally seen more traction on articles, and videos and teachings when they have a personal, emotional or a relational component in them.  So it’s not really just about the facts because we live in Google society where you can look up the information.  You need the inspiration with the information – some kind of personal or vulnerable moment whenever you’re explaining anything financially or some kind of personal anecdote.  Those pieces tend to be shared and liked a little more often because, yes you’re right, it’s a sensitive topic.

It’s taboo to talk about money and there are lots of opinions out there and nobody can argue with your experience.  For me, I deal with the faith-based side and on the faith-based side you can’t argue with the scriptures.  So I lead out with the scriptures and my experience and that’s a lot better than if I do a cold article that says, “Here are the three steps to budgeting”.  You can find that stuff on a lot of different websites, but what you can’t find is your story.

AD:  You’re right, I wrote a piece called, The Difference Between Being Cheap and Frugal, and it got a lot reaction I think first because I told a story with it in a humorous way, and also because it’s something a lot of people have been personally faced with.

When you were coming up, did your folks talk to you about a lot of this stuff or did you have to find it all out on your own?

dsc03836CB:  I have an interesting story.  This is pretty cool.  I did not have a dad growing up.  I actually had four fathers who were all violent and we were always running away from them, from abuse shelter to abuse shelter.  So I didn’t have a dad and my Mom, because she was a single, Mom was always working three jobs and was never home.  So I really raised myself, but I say that liberally because I’d be sitting in an apartment with no food and no furniture for days at a time completely bored stiff, but the one thing I did have was my Yellow Sony Walkman; if you remember from all the way back in the day before the Sony Discman.

I was listening to the radio and I was never a really big music guy at the ages of 11, 12 and 13 years old.  I was always more intrigued by learning because to that point, I had just been sitting around the house by myself and bored, and we didn’t really have TV and cable or anything like that, so I was just intrigued by things that would get me to think.  So I would listen to guys like: Charles Stanley, James Dobson and Larry Burkett, and then later on Dave Ramsey.

Pretty much the radio raised me.  I mixed that in with some pastors, some teachers and coaches – there ended up being some bosses later on that really walked me through life and taught me these principles. Then I found out about Financial Peace University which made it more formalized.  But for me, I was never taught this stuff other than listening to the radio, and no one ever sat me down in a formal setting and taught me these things.  For me it just clicked and as soon as I knew that it was God’s way of handling money, it made sense to me.

I actually didn’t make a lot of money mistakes in middle school, high school or college.  I did great financially starting off as an adult.  I was the man.  I was rocking and thinking that what I was doing at the time really worked.  And then one day I decided I was going to get cocky.  I was flipping homes and I said, ‘Why am I flipping homes one at a time?  This is great.  This is fun.  This is awesome.  I’ll flip eight at a time.  I’ll go borrow a million dollars and I’m going to expedite this thing.  I’m going to get rich quick.’

The year was 2007 (the start of the bursting of the housing bubble) and for the next 36 months I couldn’t put a renter in any of my properties and I couldn’t sell any of them, so I was paying out $10,000 a month on vacant homes all of the way to January 2011 when I had to walk into a filled courtroom, look a Trustee in the eye and I had to file bankruptcy.  So it was a major fall because of one month of getting greedy and getting cocky.  So I was never taught, but I learned more from that big mistake than I learned all of the rest of the time.  I will never go borrow again, not even for a house.  I will never borrow money again period.

AD:  So at the DC Smart Money Tour stop you told us the funny story about your sons and the garage door.  As an education writer and a science tutor, I’m always fascinated by what resources some kids have access to early in their lives versus others, because what you learn at a young age can greatly impact your life as an adult.  Are these lessons you’re going to teach them gradually?  Or are you going to sit them down one day and say, “Okay guys, we’re going to sit down and watch Financial Peace University today and then we’re going to debrief afterwards”?  How are you planning to do that?

CB:  The best thing I can do is teach them the world view and the heart behind good financial management.  I don’t want to manage their behavior, I want to manage their heart and so every day from the time they’ve been able to retain a thought – so four, five, and maybe six years old – anytime anything happens with relationships or anything else, there’s a great teaching opportunity to say, ‘That relationship, that brother of yours, God has put that relationship in your life trusting you to make sure you handle that relationship well and for His glory.’  And they’re not going to get it right away, but I’m planting seeds all of the way throughout their childhood.

Now as far as formal guidance, they’re already getting that.  They actually love it because kids are sponges.  We have what we call Financial Peace Junior.  It’s a great curriculum and age appropriate for my kids and they actually love it.  They’ve got this savings jar and it’s got three different compartments where you: give, save, and spend.

They have a chore chart where they get commissions for their chores.  Two of my three have bank accounts where they save and we go out to the mall and they save their saving part, give their giving part, and spend their spending part.  So it’s been great and when its time they’ll go to the next curriculum for middle-schoolers and high schoolers; Generation Change and then Financial Peace University.  I don’t ever want to make them do anything.  I want them to want to, and I’m never going to force them.

I think the only thing I would do if they were rebellious and looking to get married at 23 years old, I think about six months before they got married, if they hadn’t done it yet, I would probably bribe them to make sure they’ve got it in their brain first.  I’d say, ‘I’ll give you $200 to watch this class just so that I know that you did,’ and just so that I know that I equipped them on my side as a parent.  I would say, ‘You’ve got to listen to this.  This is going to save you thousands and thousands of dollars, maybe even millions if you sit down and watch this.’ So I would make sure that before they got married they did it, but I don’t think I’m going to have that problem so far.

AD:  And once again Chris, when does your show come on?  You have a livestream broadcast right?

CB:  In DC we’re on at 3:30 pm on 780 AM-WAVA.  And, of course, we’re on in 20 different markets at all different times from noon to 8 pm depending on the market all of the way from Seattle, Portland, San Diego, Washington DC, Detroit, all over the place.  We also have iTunes podcasts and we’re on Google Play and we’re also at Stewardship.com. So there are lots of different places people can connect with us.

AD:  Well Chris, those are all of the questions that I have.

CB:  Thank you, Anwar, we appreciate all of your work.

A special thanks for this interview goes out to: Chris Brown, Dave Ramsey Solutions, to the Alfred Street Baptist Church, and finally to Tommy and Erica Walker, founders of the Financial Peace University Ministry at the Alfred Street Baptist Church.

Thank you for taking the time out to read this post. If you enjoyed this post, you might also enjoy:

The difference between being cheap and frugal
We should’ve bought Facebook and Bitcoin stock: An investing story
Your net worth, your gross salary and what they mean
Simone Griffin discusses homeownership and the African American community part one (also parts two and three)
Mother’s Day 2017: one of my mother’s greatest gifts, getting engaged and avoiding my own personal fiscal cliff
Father’s Day 2017: reflections on some of Dad’s money and life lessons

If you’ve found value here and think it would benefit others, please share it and or leave a comment.  To receive all of the most up to date content from the Big Words Blog Site, subscribe using the subscription box in the right hand column in this post and throughout the site.  Please visit my YouTube channel entitled, Big Discussions76.  Lastly follow me on Twitter at @BWArePowerful, on Instagram at @anwaryusef76 and at the Big Words Blog Site Facebook page.  While my main areas of focus are Education, STEM and Financial Literacy, there are other blog/sites I endorse which can be found on that particular page of my site.

The Difference Between Being Cheap and Frugal

“Hell yeah I’m cheap and proud of it too.  I want to save every single penny that I can! I don’t mind getting perfectly good stuff for free either.  My wife’s family frequently gets rid of really good stuff, and I willingly take it.”

cheap-and-frugal

The following piece was originally published on the Examiner back in December of 2013, and actually turned out to be one of my most popular compositions.  It visited something very emotional; one’s money management and how it is perceived by others – families, friends, significant others, etc.  It discusses how two groups of people are classified in terms of their money management; those who are cheap and those who are frugal.

It was in part inspired by the late Deborah Aguiar-Vélez, founder of Escuchame who came to my job and gave a discussion about wealth building.  Prior to publishing this piece she granted me permission to use a slide from her talk as the accompanying visual for this article.  Lastly it falls under my “Financial Literacy” principle.

*  *  *

“The difference between envy and jealousy Anwar is that there is no malice attached to envy,” my mentor and friend Mark told me in a recent meeting.  “When someone is jealous of you, you have something that they want which upsets them and they will go to great lengths to make sure you don’t have it anymore or don’t even get it in the first place.  They may even go as far as to cause you harm.  Envy is simply when someone wishes they had what you have with no malice attached.  Envy and jealousy are two different words that most people confuse.”

Mark and I frequently have discussions like this spanning numerous areas/topics.  This one reminded me of another confusion of words; the definitions of cheap and frugal, two very important concepts in the worlds of financial literacy and intelligence, and thus the basis of this article.

“Hell yeah I’m cheap and proud of it too.  I want to save every single penny that I can,” a coworker named Hardy said smiling during a random conversation at work a couple of years ago.  “I don’t mind getting perfectly good stuff for free either.  My wife’s family frequently gets rid of really good stuff, and I willingly take it.”

“You’re proud of being cheap?” was my question to Hardy after hearing him revel in his self-diagnosis.  Cheap was not a flattering word in my vernacular.  The word had recently been pinned on me by a girlfriend leaving me feeling snake bitten and sickened by just hearing someone say it.  This conversation with Hardy gave me a new perspective on the matter and actually made me laugh at the word.

Another word that was assigned to me years ago by another female during graduate school was frugal, which is actually an important attribute to have when you are in school but also later in life.  It wasn’t exactly clear to me at that point what that word meant as my behavior was simply the recapitulation of the spending habits of my mother and father who themselves were frugal.

During Hispanic Heritage Month almost a year after my discussion with Hardy, entrepreneur Deborah Aguiar-Vélez, owner and founder of the company Escuchame visited my job and gave a really good seminar on wealth building.  Much of her talk discussed sound financial decision making, living within one’s means and saving money which sound like common sense ideas but for many people are not.  Interestingly a couple of her slides described the differences between being frugal and being cheap.

Mrs. Vélez eloquently described being frugal as:

  • Living within your means
  • Careful management of anything valuable which expends nothing unnecessarily, and applies what is used to a profitable purpose
  • Finding ways to save money
  • A conscious decision and you are therefore in control of your actions towards a goal

That slide was followed up with a description of what frugal is not:

  • Cheapness
  • Meanness
  • Bizarre behavior
  • Suffering
  • Difficult

Her talk helped me to see that there is in fact nothing wrong with being frugal, and re-enforced why it’s a good idea to be this way versus the alternatives; impulsive, frivolous and wasteful.  My discussions with Hardy described above and Mrs. Velez’s seminar also reminded me that labels and titles that we assign to each other are often subject to one’s point of view.

Though this post was written partially in a humorous way, these are important and serious lessons for everyone, especially in our society which actively promotes consumerism to all economic classes poor and rich, and attaches self-worth to material objects and luxuries of all kinds.

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